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Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Sep 29, 2005 at 2:54PM
Dave San Marcos, Texas 308 Posts	Since this seems to be an issue, I though I would pose the question. Has anyone here had the opportunity or been placed in a position where they had to discuss intelligent design with someone who was an ardent believer. If so, how did the discussion proceed? Were you able to win them over to your viewpoint? If anyone is interested in arguments in support of evolution, talkorigins.org is a good site. Dave Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value -- Albert Einstein Login to reply

Replies to Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID?

Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Oct 04 2005 2:21PM
Gary Society of Physics... 293 Posts	I know a lot of people who would say that they were believers of some version of Intelligent Design; I have had many discussions on the topic. I don't really know what to think about the idea of winning them over, though. These surveys that go on and on breathlessly about what ghastly superstition, or new age philosophy, or traditional religious view, that Americans currently believe seem largely beside the point to me. The issue to me is not what people purport to believe, but rather, whether 'beliefs' not supported by evidence and the scientific community as a whole should make appearances in the science classroom and whether non-scientists and non-educators are allowed to decide what does appear in the science classroom. I don't think it my job as a scientist and teacher to change people's beliefs, rather, part of my job is to demonstrate evidence-based reasoning in context, and expect that students be able to discern when evidence-based reasoning is occuring and when it is not, and even to indulge in it themselves. NSF Program Director (on assignment from the AIP and the Society of Physics Students to serve as the Robert Noyce Scholarship Program Director at the National Science Foundation) Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Oct 04 2005 2:21PM

Gary
Society of Physics...
293 Posts

I know a lot of people who would say that they were believers of some version of Intelligent Design; I have had many discussions on the topic. I don't really know what to think about the idea of winning them over, though. These surveys that go on and on breathlessly about what ghastly superstition, or new age philosophy, or traditional religious view, that Americans currently believe seem largely beside the point to me. The issue to me is not what people purport to believe, but rather, whether 'beliefs' not supported by evidence and the scientific community as a whole should make appearances in the science classroom and whether non-scientists and non-educators are allowed to decide what does appear in the science classroom.

I don't think it my job as a scientist and teacher to change people's beliefs, rather, part of my job is to demonstrate evidence-based reasoning in context, and expect that students be able to discern when evidence-based reasoning is occuring and when it is not, and even to indulge in it themselves.

NSF Program Director (on assignment from the AIP and the Society of Physics Students to serve as the Robert Noyce Scholarship Program Director at the National Science Foundation)

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Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Nov 07 2005 3:21PM
Christy Tuscaloosa, AL 21 Posts	Here Here! I agree. Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Dec 05 2005 9:20PM
Deuce VA 14 Posts	My response to intelligent design: "You're an idiot" Then I laugh and explain that to an extent I subscribe to this. -Deuce Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Dec 22 2005 10:03AM
Charles 1 Posts	I have had many arguments, all lost. They said "The Bible says it. That settles it. Scientists are all liars." Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Dec 22 2005 10:28AM
Deuce VA 14 Posts	The bible also says dragons will arrive on the coming days of the apocolypse... check it out in revelations. (The Discovery Channel rocks!!) -Deuce Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Jul 07 2006 5:06AM
greg tepes 3 Posts	> Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? > > Since this seems to be an issue, I though I would > pose the question. Has anyone here had the opportunity > or been placed in a position where they had to discuss > intelligent design with someone who was an ardent > believer. If so, how did the discussion proceed? > Were you able to win them over to your viewpoint? > If anyone is interested in arguments in support of > evolution, talkorigins.org is a good site. > > Dave Job 6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him. Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Jul 07 2006 5:06AM

greg tepes
3 Posts

> Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID?
>
> Since this seems to be an issue, I though I would
> pose the question.  Has anyone here had the opportunity
> or been placed in a position where they had to discuss
> intelligent design with someone who was an ardent
> believer.  If so, how did the discussion proceed?
>  Were you able to win them over to your viewpoint?
>  If anyone is interested in arguments in support of
> evolution, talkorigins.org is a good site.
>
> Dave

Job 6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him.

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Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Jul 07 2006 5:21AM
greg tepes 3 Posts	> Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? > > > Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone > who believes in ID? > > > > Since this seems to be an > issue, I though I would > > pose the question. Has > anyone here had the opportunity > > or been placed in > a position where they had to discuss > > intelligent > design with someone who was an ardent > > believer. > If so, how did the discussion proceed? > > Were > you able to win them over to your viewpoint? > > > If anyone is interested in arguments in support o > > > evolution, talkorigins.org is a good site. > > > > > Dave Hi Dave. Yes, Dave, I do have one very important tip that might prove helpful to discussing ID with an "ardent believer." First educate yourself. That is know your subject before attempting to discuss ID or creation science. A high percentage "non believers" that attempt dialog of a religious nature with me don't know the subject, or are poorly learned on the subject, to say the least. Ignorance is bliss indeed, for those that are ignorant. This common trait, along with the hi brow ideas, should be repaired before attempting any banter clergy or those versed in ID or (the many aspects of) creation science! Forgive me if I seem a bit raw, its a fact of religious life that ones nerves must be exposed to the abrasions of daily, if not hourly, exposure to humanistic environmental hazards. Job 6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him. Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Jul 07 2006 5:21AM

greg tepes
3 Posts

> Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID?
>
> > Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone
> who believes in ID?
> >
> > Since this seems to be an
> issue, I though I would
> > pose the question.  Has
> anyone here had the opportunity
> > or been placed in
> a position where they had to discuss
> > intelligent
> design with someone who was an ardent
> > believer.
>  If so, how did the discussion proceed?
> >  Were
> you able to win them over to your viewpoint?
> >
>  If anyone is interested in arguments in support o
>
> > evolution, talkorigins.org is a good site.
> >
> >
> Dave

Hi Dave.

Yes, Dave, I do have one very important tip that might prove helpful to discussing ID with an "ardent believer." First educate yourself. That is know your subject before attempting to discuss ID or creation science.  A high percentage "non believers" that attempt dialog of a religious nature with me don't know the subject, or are poorly learned on the subject, to say the least.

Ignorance is bliss indeed, for those that are ignorant. This common trait, along with the hi brow ideas, should be repaired before attempting any banter clergy or those versed in ID or (the many aspects of) creation science!

Forgive me if I seem a bit raw, its a fact of religious life that ones nerves must be exposed to the abrasions of daily, if not hourly, exposure to humanistic environmental hazards.

Job 6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him.

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Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Sep 20 2006 9:51PM
Megan Bonnett 3 Posts	Yep, well, us liberals are just as tired of being singed by the hell-fire and brimstone when the church doors open. > Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? > > > Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with > someone who believes in ID? > > > > > Re: Have you had > a discussion/argument with someone > > who believes in ID > > > > > > > Since this seems to be an > > issue, I though > I would > > > pose the question. Has > > anyone here > had the opportunity > > > or been placed in > > a position > where they had to discuss > > > intelligent > > design > with someone who was an ardent > > > believer. > > > If so, how did the discussion proceed? > > > Wer > > > you able to win them over to your viewpoint? > > > > > > If anyone is interested in arguments in support > > > > > > evolution, talkorigins.org is a good site > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > Hi Dave. > > Yes, Dave, I do have > one very important tip that might prove helpful to > discussing ID with an "ardent believer." First educate > yourself. That is know your subject before attempting > to discuss ID or creation science. A high percentage > "non believers" that attempt dialog of a religious > nature with me don't know the subject, or are poorly > learned on the subject, to say the least. > > Ignorance > is bliss indeed, for those that are ignorant. This > common trait, along with the hi brow ideas, should > be repaired before attempting any banter clergy or > those versed in ID or (the many aspects of) creation > science! > > Forgive me if I seem a bit raw, its a fact > of religious life that ones nerves must be exposed > to the abrasions of daily, if not hourly, exposure > to humanistic environmental hazards. Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Sep 20 2006 9:51PM

Megan Bonnett
3 Posts

Yep, well, us liberals are just as tired of being singed by the hell-fire and brimstone when the church doors open.

> Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID?
>
> > Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with
> someone who believes in ID?
> >
> > > Re: Have you had
> a discussion/argument with someone
> > who believes in ID
>
> > >
> > > Since this seems to be an
> > issue, I though
> I would
> > > pose the question.  Has
> > anyone here
> had the opportunity
> > > or been placed in
> > a position
> where they had to discuss
> > > intelligent
> > design
> with someone who was an ardent
> > > believer.
> >
>  If so, how did the discussion proceed?
> > >  Wer
>
> > you able to win them over to your viewpoint?
> > >
>
> >  If anyone is interested in arguments in support
>
> >
> > > evolution, talkorigins.org is a good site
>
> > >
> > >
> > Dave
>
>
> Hi Dave.
>
> Yes, Dave, I do have
> one very important tip that might prove helpful to
> discussing ID with an "ardent believer." First educate
> yourself. That is know your subject before attempting
> to discuss ID or creation science.  A high percentage
> "non believers" that attempt dialog of a religious
> nature with me don't know the subject, or are poorly
> learned on the subject, to say the least.
>
> Ignorance
> is bliss indeed, for those that are ignorant. This
> common trait, along with the hi brow ideas, should
> be repaired before attempting any banter clergy or
> those versed in ID or (the many aspects of) creation
> science!
>
> Forgive me if I seem a bit raw, its a fact
> of religious life that ones nerves must be exposed
> to the abrasions of daily, if not hourly, exposure
> to humanistic environmental hazards.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Sep 20 2006 9:57PM
Megan Bonnett 3 Posts	It's good that you can admit that you're bitter over the struggle, but insulting someone right off the bat will bring nothing your way but instant scrutiny. I could elaborate on the irony gushing from your text in the form of poor grammar, punctuation and spelling (all the while you're biting at someone whose original comment was entirely benign), but instead, I simply invite you to "argue" with someone who is "learned", not only through personal experience, but through a christian education as well, and who saw through the contradictions that serve as a faulty foundation for organized religions. > Re: Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? > > Yep, well, us liberals are just as tired of being > singed by the hell-fire and brimstone when the church > doors open. > > > Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument > with someone who believes in ID? > > > > > Re: Re: Have > you had a discussion/argument with > > someone who believes > in ID? > > > > > > > Re: Have you had > > a discussion/argument > with someone > > > who believes in ID > > > > > > > > > > > Since this seems to be an > > > issue, I though > > I woul > > > > > pose the question. Has > > > anyone here > > had > the opportunity > > > > or been placed in > > > a positio > > > where they had to discuss > > > > intelligent > > > desig > > > with someone who was an ardent > > > > believer > > > > > > If so, how did the discussion proceed > > > > > Wer > > > > > you able to win them over to > your viewpoint? > > > > > > > > > If anyone is interested > in arguments in support > > > > > > > > > evolution, > talkorigins.org is a good site > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dav > > > > > > > Hi Dave. > > > > Yes, Dave, I do have > > one > very important tip that might prove helpful to > > discussing > ID with an "ardent believer." First educate > > yourself. > That is know your subject before attempting > > to discuss > ID or creation science. A high percentage > > "non > believers" that attempt dialog of a religious > > nature > with me don't know the subject, or are poorly > > learned > on the subject, to say the least. > > > > Ignorance > > > is bliss indeed, for those that are ignorant. Thi > > > common trait, along with the hi brow ideas, shoul > > > be repaired before attempting any banter clergy o > > > those versed in ID or (the many aspects of) creatio > > > science! > > > > Forgive me if I seem a bit raw, its > a fact > > of religious life that ones nerves must be > exposed > > to the abrasions of daily, if not hourly, > exposure > > to humanistic environmental hazards. Login to reply \| Condense

Re: Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID? - Sep 20 2006 9:57PM

Megan Bonnett
3 Posts

It's good that you can admit that you're bitter over the struggle, but insulting someone right off the bat will bring nothing your way but instant scrutiny.  I could elaborate on the irony gushing from your text in the form of poor grammar, punctuation and spelling (all the while you're biting at someone whose original comment was entirely benign), but instead, I simply invite you to "argue" with someone who is "learned", not only through personal experience, but through a christian education as well, and who saw through the contradictions that serve as a faulty foundation for organized religions.

> Re: Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument with someone who believes in ID?
>
> Yep, well, us liberals are just as tired of being
> singed by the hell-fire and brimstone when the church
> doors open.
>
> > Re: Re: Re: Have you had a discussion/argument
> with someone who believes in ID?
> >
> > > Re: Re: Have
> you had a discussion/argument with
> > someone who believes
> in ID?
> > >
> > > > Re: Have you had
> > a discussion/argument
> with someone
> > > who believes in ID
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > Since this seems to be an
> > > issue, I though
> > I woul
>
> > > > pose the question.  Has
> > > anyone here
> > had
> the opportunity
> > > > or been placed in
> > > a positio
>
> > where they had to discuss
> > > > intelligent
> > > desig
>
> > with someone who was an ardent
> > > > believer
>
> > >
> >  If so, how did the discussion proceed
>
> > > >  Wer
> >
> > > you able to win them over to
> your viewpoint?
> > > >
> >
> > >  If anyone is interested
> in arguments in support
> >
> > >
> > > > evolution,
> talkorigins.org is a good site
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Dav
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Dave.
> >
> > Yes, Dave, I do have
> > one
> very important tip that might prove helpful to
> > discussing
> ID with an "ardent believer." First educate
> > yourself.
> That is know your subject before attempting
> > to discuss
> ID or creation science.  A high percentage
> > "non
> believers" that attempt dialog of a religious
> > nature
> with me don't know the subject, or are poorly
> > learned
> on the subject, to say the least.
> >
> > Ignorance
> >
> is bliss indeed, for those that are ignorant. Thi
>
> > common trait, along with the hi brow ideas, shoul
>
> > be repaired before attempting any banter clergy o
>
> > those versed in ID or (the many aspects of) creatio
>
> > science!
> >
> > Forgive me if I seem a bit raw, its
> a fact
> > of religious life that ones nerves must be
> exposed
> > to the abrasions of daily, if not hourly,
> exposure
> > to humanistic environmental hazards.

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